Contributions: Aug-Sept 1999

The SYLVIA PLATH Forum

Welcome to the Sylvia Plath Forum which began January 1998 following the surprise publication of Ted Hughes' Birthday Letters. The forum is moderated and maintained by Elaine Connell.
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Sylvia Plath was a amazing writer, she had what very few have a talent with words. When reading her poetry before I found out how she died, I could hardly understand it but the facts of her death shed a light of tragedy on every poem she ever wrote. To know her would have been amazing her thought flowing like the wind, being able to bottle her heart up and use it as a ink to write poetry. I hope that she knows she has left a lasting impressionin me forever!

Jamie
Lima, USA
Thursday, September 30, 1999

Just FYI... I understand that a paperback edition of "Johnny Panic" will be released in the US in February of 2000!

Ann
Boston, MA, USA
Thursday, September 30, 1999

I have just re-read "Three Women". I think it is classic Plath, all her hallmarks are there, including her repetitions (the first voice seems to repeat all the time, possibly to reassure herself - she's the one who wants her baby but is very worried and even scared about it). A lot has been said about Plath using babies and the imagery of them in her later work, and I think it started here. But some of my favorite lines are about the identities of the women, such as the Second Voice saying

I am not ugly. I am even beautiful.
The mirror gives back a woman without deformity.
The nurses give back my clothes, and an identity.
It is usual, they say, for such a thing to happen.
It is usual in my life, and the lives of others.
I am one in five, something like that. I am not hopeless.
I am beautiful as a statistic. Here is my lipstick.

or the Third Voice:

The face in the pool was beautiful, but not mine-
It had a consequential look, like everything else,
And all I could see was dangers: doves and words,
Stars and showers of gold - conceptions, conceptions!
I remember a white, cold wing
And the great swan, with its terrible look,
Coming at me, like a castle, from the top of the river.

(I just realized--this is her retelling "Leda and the Swan". I never even noticed it before now.)

I don't know if Plath wrote this specifically for radio, but her language is looser and seems to be pointing to "The Moon and the Yew Tree" and other poems where she talks about the cold, flat, perfect world vs. the warm, awkward, productive one. I know some tend to think of Plath as being wholly negative, but in "Three Women" all the voices, the women, are reconciled to their fates, although the Third Voice, belonging to the woman who gives up her child, ends wondering:

I am solitary as grass. What is it I miss?
Shall I ever find it, whatever it is?

I think this is Plath's "real" voice, though it is all her. The most touching statement for me comes from the First Voice, the woman who keeps her child:

It is a terrible thing
To be so open: It is as if my heart
Put on a face and walked into the world.

At the same time, although this is a long poem about maternity, I also think that Plath is meditating on creativity. Bringing something to life successfully was very important to Plath, whether it was a poem or a baby. I think it is significant that the woman who miscarries, despite her belief at first that she has somehow picked up, like cooties, the "flatness" of men, has the last words:

I find myself again. I am no shadow
Though there is a shadow starting from my feet. I am a wife.
The city waits and aches. The little grasses
Crack through stone, and they are green with life.

I think this is Plath at her finest, beginning to tell the truth straight out, in her own voice. I hope the BBC does as good a job as they did in 1962 with their broadcast!

Lena Friesen
Toronto, Canada
Monday, September 27, 1999

Has anyone got any thoughts on the poem Edge, by Plath, I am in a constant debate whether it is suggesting the cold, and bitterness of Plath, or the warming, revived sentiments of the persona. Your analysis and comments on the poem would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Geoff
Bristol, England
Monday, September 27, 1999

A few points,briefly.

Some time ago, I took a literature course at college.This course was taught by a noted Greek poet-a very intelligent,accomplished man of unusual dignity.He prefaced his discussion of Conrad's "Lord Jim" (in front of a class containing at least thirty African-Americans) by stating that he might use some words that were considered objectionable, but he could not compromise the integrity of a great work of art by changing or omitting words which may have unfortunate connotations and, since we were all adult, he expected we would undertand. Professor D.then proceeded to use the "n word" several times over the next few classes,without incident or protest. A very simple, classy and effective solution.

Secondly, as far as SP's use, I find it difficult to believe that someone so remarkably (if not extraordinarily) intelligent, who related so strongly to concentration camp victims, could have been a racist. I suspect that she was trying to create a particular effect and, since we are all adult, she expected we would understand.

Thirdly,does any one know how to obtain a copy of the album or albums SP recorded in England in the early sixties? Are they out on cd? I've searched used record stores since forever, but no luck. Thanks.

Kevin
New Jersey, USA
Monday, September 27, 1999

Yes, please let's discuss some of the other poems in 'Ariel' as the previous discussion is stalled and frankly, has no room to go anywhere on the topic of that pesky 'n' word. Elizabeth, dear, what poem do you fancy talking about?

I know there are loads of people out there wanting to talk the poems. Might I suggest Plath's verse play, Three Women? Since it will be aired soon it might be beneficial to work out the poem--and it's so pivotal in Plath's work.

Peter Steinberg
Alexandria, Va, USA
Friday, September 24, 1999

Does anyone know where to trace Plath's early poem "'Three Caryatids Without a Portico' by Hugh Robus: A Study in Sculptural Dimensions"? It was first published in a Cambridge students magazine in 1956 or in late 1955. Though Ted Hughes made it the subject of his second poem in 'Birthday Letters', he did not include it in 'Collected Poems' nor did he mention in it the 'Uncollected Juvenilia' index at the end of the book.

Anna Ravano
Milan, Italy

In the Seattle Times : Gwyneth Paltrow is set to play the late writer Sylvia Plath ("The Bell Jar"), who committed suicide in 1963. The film is "Ted and Sylvia," inspired by poems by her husband, the late poet Ted Hughes, who left her for another woman. Chances are this will not be a comedy.

Ivy Imbuido
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Wednesday, September 22, 1999

I am going to be in the U.K. over the New Years holiday, staying with friends, and if possible, I will tape the '3 Women' broadcast. Depending on how many people would be interested in hearing the tape, I could make a few copies and send them out, then other people could pass them on...if this is legal, of course! And barring any Y2K mishaps...If you are interested, pls. let me know via my email address:

Kim
Detroit, USA
Tuesday, September 21, 1999

I mostly agree with everyone, including myself. It seems time to tell the story of "The day of Ariel." I said the poem to a small group of adults at my temple. I'd told them I was sleepy and just wanted to listen to their readings (original and non). Right before it was time to leave, a man asked me for a poem. He said, "Elizabeth looks like she has a poem." The rest is history! A second man sort of gasped at "White godiva." At the end of the poem there was a pause. The first man thoughtfully said, "The cauldron of morning." And then a woman said "Let's go read Sylvia Plath!" On the way out she and the cauldron of morning guy each approached me and each said, "Thank you for the Sylvia Plath."

Michael, no one did ask what the word was. A young "person of color" was present and as I said, we were in a temple. If anyone had asked for the word I would have given it after. Thanks for asking. If everyone already knew the poem, I can't say what I'd have done. Maybe declaimed "The Lake Isle of Innisfree." Obviously I do have strong feelings about saying and writing the word in question. I dont believe I have earned the right. It doesnt feel like my word in any way, nor does it need to. If I ever am teaching at University of course I will not change her words. I would speak all her words, as I would be aiming at a different goal. Here I was trying to entertain and to share Sylvia. In the other instance I'd agree with all of you, it's a sacrilege to art, etc., a betrayal of my values (which I am loath to try to cram down another's throat.)

I was away on a nature retreat for the past three days, and am more appreciative of you people now than ever. For three days no one but I interested in Sylvia Plath, art, poetry, writing....

A Scottish woman was there and she said THAT word is quite common in Britain, and when used by the upper classes is considered acceptable. (Not that S.P. was from the British or American upper-class.) The Scottish woman compared it to "shag." Then she questioned why "shag" is in the papers and on television over here, saying we are using a filthily obscene word....she finds it loathsome. She also told me N was not a big deal in the early 60's. Maybe my family and I are further from the norm than I'd realized? When you are so close to something its hard to see whats around it. Anyway, I'm glad to learn some history. To all who write to me or about me in this Forum, I dont agree with everything you say, its odd to have a stranger talk as if she or he knows me, and to be ordered not to read "Ariel", but you are passionate; we share that and a love of Sylvia Plath....yippee. I can't fault you.

There's too much word-policing and attempts to control going on, obviously I'm chafing at that bit, and wondering why you are giving me so much power. Quoting from another S.P. poem I love, Im "an obstinate independency." Peter, maybe we can work out a trade of some sort as to what we each will say! I will say the word to you. I don't know what Sylvia would have liked, but imagine she would enjoy these postings. Thanks Elaine.

Back to my reading that day, I don't know that I'll ever forget the look on those faces, the eyes that were saying, "so THAT'S Sylvia Plath....Wow."

The next month I met with them and read "The Night Dances," "Heptonstall Cemetery" (Elaine, is this where Hughes' ashes are interred?), and "Earrings"--one by each Hughes. I was surprised to hear my voice breaking on a line in "Heptonstall Cemetery." It felt full of tears. I mentioned that each poet has written books for children, and said "The Iron Giant" film is based on a book of Teds. A woman said, "I haven't seen the movie but I've already cried through the first half hour"--this is pretty heady stuff for a shy person such as I. It turned out a man in the group had written his thesis on T.H. so he and I began a conversation I hope continues for years.

About the censorship thing, I'm just one woman, not getting money from any state or national institution, so I don't have to make the choice to conform to "rules, rules, rules" or be silent. Repeat, I will read and say whatever I feel like. At this point in my life I am my own boss. I am not a book publisher, etc. If I ever am, I swear not to edit these beautiful poems (do you all realize that they HAVE been edited?)

I think there is some confusion over what censorship IS. If we were posting on a Shakespeare Play forum, do you vote that a play be presented in its entirety or not at all? In the time period in which the author set it or else it must not be presented? Does the amount of time an author has been dead have something to do with it? Since some of his dialog is pretty sexual, must these particular plays not be taught at all to young readers, or can these scenes be altered in some way? Do you need to include a sex education lesson for them, e.g., in the parts where "country" (cunt) becomes a play on words? I was taught the complete Shakespeare as an undergraduate but was reading him from second grade on, in various editions that adults picked out for me. Would you have decided for me that I could or should not have read him, as I "should not" read "Ariel" (I assume you mean silently as well as aloud?) And do you know what he feels while he's dead, like you do with Sylvia? Wh!
at B.S.)
Again, re: Plath's choice, I do NOT believe it to have been merely adjectival; yes, it betters the poem; again I repeat it's NOT the same as "nadir" (where are you getting this stuff; next person, please copy/paste any text in which I claim I do,) EXCEPT in the ways I have stated, similar vowel and consonant sounds; each word connotes blackness--that's all. I never claimed to have said "nadir" was Sylvia's word-choice, or that I wrote "Ariel," blah, blah.
In the reading of about two months past, I wanted the message of "Ariel" to make its statement. Sidebar: I believe the poem is life-affirming---Using such a word in that particular place, etc. seemed likely to divert most or all of the attention onto me. ("She said THAT?" instead of "What did she say the name of that poem is?")

I feel pretty burnt out on this whole topic but do want to tell Peter, whoa dude, it's the berries and not "the deep, dark & historical color of the horse's eye." The berries have eyes and can reach out hooks but lack the power to catch horse and rider. Interestingly, by using the words "casting" and "hooks," Plath creates an image of water (her element) and causes all four elements (earth, air, fire and water) to appear in her poem.

Can someone tell us if "Horses" is the title Sylvia chose, or was this an editorial decision---To me, calling the poem "Ariel" is powerful and evocative. I'd rather it was Sylvia's idea but even if it is not it adds more (my opinion) than the former, and should stand. About the poems title, when you know of or study the other Ariels, e.g., the spirit who earns his freedom from the beloved magician, it is explicating the poem. Do we need to be told "horse" when the I-speaker calls herself "godiva"? Unless you choose to think this word too is a plain old noun, without its rich subtext and history. Whatever. Can we discuss some Ariel poems and works I did not mention last time (because I don't yet know of them)? Did I already say I haven't read her novel in years? I don't recall each scene. I've been reading poetry since last September only. Maybe Jack or Kenneth or Melissa Dobson or Stewart is out there and willing to have a discussion without trying to place conditions on me first....

For Michael, hi there. In the U.S.A.--its "State"-funded schools and other institutions--attempts to censor works of art are a big problem. There are groups wanting to ban HUCKLEBERRY FINN, etc.wholesale. Saying who should be allowed to read it, because they know what's best for everyone. This implies everyone is the same. My belief is, that is totally rigid thinking. To me, according to whom you are teaching, word-substitutions actually can be preferable to silence. I am so surprised this is radical to some of you. For me, it's about degrees. I am fearful of either/or. Who gets to judge another's maturity, for example, and make his judgment absolute instead of relative? I leave it to you. I myself do not know you. If or when I do, I do not choose to discuss your personality in this forum, but will perhaps continue to discuss your ideas.

To me, it seems that either/or is extreme and will lead to censorship and loss of freedom. I have tried to explain the particular circumstances of my word blended with Plaths, the outcomes; earlier it seemed irrelevant to do so--I may have felt my own words lack real power but I see my own lengthy postings and my stubborness must be affecting.

Hopefully Michael also will give a public reading of "Ariel" to people you don't know, and you'll teach us about freedom of thought, etc., the power of the individual, and censorship in France. Thank you for I hope at least considering it.

Final explanation: I had deleted the following from my second posting. It is about my phrase, "As if she had deliberately marred her perfect poem." When I was thinking of Plath, and of Ariel the female horse, "mar" as a noun came to me. Naturally I do not need to list its meanings. As for using it as a verb, "to mar," (blemish) as some or all of you know, Amish quiltmakers (they are all women) stitch in a flaw after realizing their quilt will otherwise turn out perfect. It's my understanding that the Amish believe only God creates (or can be allowed to create?) perfection. I was wondering, did S.P. share some similar belief about God and perfection? I'm fascinated by her philosophy regarding both, and don't know much at all about her, outside of the voice I hear in the journal and later poetry.

Elizabeth
San Francisco, USA
Monday, September 20, 1999

You lucky Brits! This is excerpted from a Guardian article: [Robin Rimbaud] did the wonderful Radio 3 version of Anne Michaels's Fugitive Pieces earlier this year and, as well as the Dream, he's done the sound for a superb Sylvia Plath three-hander, The Three Women, to be broadcast on Radio 3 on New Year's Day.

I wish I can get to hear it.

Ivy Imbuido
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Monday, September 20, 1999

Yes, a lot of people dislike hearing the word "nigger", which has historically been used to dismiss entire groups of people. I am one of those people. I was told as a child of three or four that "nice little girls don't say that word." And I don't: I have never once in my life called a person by that word or by any other negative racial epithet. But when I come to it in Plath's poem (or Huckleberry Finn or any other work it's in) I read it; if I'm reading aloud to someone, I leave it in. If I'm quoting someone else or if I'm discussing the word itself, I say it. To be honest, it does sometimes make me uncomfortable even in those situations, but there is a clear difference between just saying the word as a word in those situations and in hurling it at human beings as an insult. And I don't think that we alleviate rascism by making that particular word taboo. If anything, we've made the word more powerful, by making it so taboo that people aren't allowed to say it for any reason--not even when they're quoting someone for the purpose of disapproving of that person's use of it. This is absurd.

The suggestion that Plath might have used the word for its shock value--similar to other instances, such as calling her Daddy a bastard--is a good point. I'm not sure I buy it in this instance because, while nice people in 1962 either didn't use the word at all or used it only in certain ways (i.e. not as a racial epithet), I don't think it had the shock value for readers of the time that it does for us today. In her later work, Plath does often say things that shock in a blunt, bald manner. "Ariel" seems a bit quieter (although more elated) than some others that more obviously fit that, such as "Lesbos", "Daddy", or "Medusa"; and the descriptive "Nigger-eye/Berries" lacks the intentional flatness of the more obvious, "hey pay attention" lines such as "I live here" coming after 10+ lines of surreality and talk of despair in "The Moon and the Yew Tree."

Re Sylvia never saying it's a horseride, I think we can infer the horse from several things: the "Pivot of heels and knees" used to control the horse, the "brown arc/of the neck" that is in front of her (she cannot catch it), and then the "Something else//Hauls me through air--/Thighs, hair;/Flakes from my heels." But we'd be right to say it is not any ordinary horseride. For one thing, she's riding toward the Sun! And on "God's lioness" no less! (Ariel=God's lion/ess.)

Actually, it's the ending that keeps me coming back to this poem. There is that feeling of freedom even in the beginning (the land may be in stasis and it may be dark, but the speaker is moving through it, apparently fast, since it is pouring by), but the feeling of freedom and even of triumph grows with the poem. The end feels wonderful, she is "the arrow" (like the arrow Buddy Willard's mother implied only a man could be), but there is that ambiguity, that what she is flying toward seems as much like death as it does like freedom. She's an arrow flying, she's dew rising toward the sun, but it's "suicidal" dew and the "red Eye" that is the sun is "the cauldron of morning". There is a wealth of connotations here, good and bad. Cauldrons appear in a number of Celtic myths, holding magical food or special brews (to give wisdom or new life, for example); witches stir up magic in their cauldrons; cauldrons are used to cook food or to boil laundry or to burn things. Logic says the red Eye is going to evaporate that dew or burn any arrow right up, yet the whole tone of the poem is still triumphant; this is a ride of freedom, no matter what happens at the end. I like that feeling of freedom.

Another thing I really like about this poem, although less important than the free feeling and the triumphant ending, is that lovely-sounding first stanza with the internal rhyming: "the substanceless blue/Pour of tor and distances". Maybe it's just me, but I love the sound of those lines in my mouth.

Suzanne
USA
Monday, September 20, 1999

According to an article from The Guardian on 15 September, Sylvia Plath's verse play, Three Women, is scheduled to be broadcast New Year's Day on Radio 3.

Merci beaucoup, Michel!!

Peter Steinberg
Alexandria, Va, USA
Monday, September 20, 1999

While I feel unable to say anything on the poem "Ariel" I would like to draw attention to another poem of the same period which was changed.

In The Savage God, A. Alvarez says:

And because I now knew something about her life, there was no avoiding how much she was a part of the action. But to have commented on that would have been to imply that the poems had failed as poetry, which they clearly had not. As always, my defence was to nag her about details. There was one line I picked on in particular:

Gentlemen, ladies

These are my hands
My knees.
I may be skin and bone,
I may be Japanese...

"Why Japanese?" I niggled away at her. "Do you just need the rhyme? Or are you trying to hitch an easy lift by dragging in the atomic victims? If you're going to use this kind of violent material, you've got to play it cool..." She argued back sharply but later, when the poem was finally published after her death, the line had gone. And that, I think, is a pity; she did need the rhyme; the tone is quite controlled enough to support the apparently not quite relevant allusion; and I was over-reacting to the initial brutality of the verse without understanding its weird elegance.

Plath also read "Daddy" to Alvarez in this same session, but he does not mention if he had any problems with it, niggling or no; the only other poem he mentions challenging her on is "Death & Co." Perhaps if he had questioned her about "Ariel" she would have changed it - maybe he did and she refused!

There are many disagreeable texts in the world. A high school teacher of mine once read the first page of Catcher in the Rye aloud, as we followed along in our books, but he wouldn't say any of the swearwords, as he was a Christian and didn't want to damn God. This made the text that much more startling, but I did not consider it censorship per se as the words were quite plainly still there. What can I say? He was a proper man who found Wuthering Heights a strange book, but he taught it to us anyway. And I like to think that if our class had included Plath as one of the few poets we did, he would have given us the tough stuff (not just "Mirror" or "Lorelei") and a discussion much like this one would have happened.

Lena Friesen
Toronto, Canada
Monday, September 20, 1999

I appreciate that you have the courage to tell other people about having changed 'this' word in a poem of Sylvia Plath - but I can't help it : I find this whole situation absurd : What would you have done, if someone had known the poem ? Did you really hope, that nobody had, or, on the contrary, that someone had, so that you could begin a discussion about racism and so on ? Maybe both ?

Another question is, why nobody asked, which word you were going to change, and why...I would be tempted to say : well, if they are that shy or stupid, that's their own fault, but of course that's quite arrogant of me... I have the impression that you did behave as a - very traditional teacher, who wants to 'rebuild' the world, because he/she thinks her 'pupils' are not mature enough to understand the real world - whereas he/she him/herself, I mean the teacher, is not mature enough and so is afraid of showing how confused ' (why not ?) he/she is...

But right now, I am behaving as a teacher myself, who wants to give some lessons... In difficult situations, everyone can make mistakes, I have (as a teacher !) made some really 'big' mistakes, of which I am stilll ashamed. But of course I think that nobody has the right to change a poem (a literay text), except the author : it's a so elementary principle that we should not have to discuss about it.

Michel Kappes
Brest, France
Saturday, September 18, 1999

Actually Elizabeth, I didn't say the 'n' word to him as I was afraid he'd be the living 'you-know-what' out of me. He was bigger!

The issue here is the poetry, as you mentioned. And I would love to have a nice explication of the poetry & the poem "Ariel." It is a fascinating link between Stevens' poem & Plath's--and further gives credit to both poets and the ability to inspire! I don't think I, or any one else here, have strayed away from your original posting, though, about the use of the 'n' word. You asked why she used it. We've all replied why we think she used it--to better the poem. To effectively and beautifully describe the deep, dark & historical color of the horse's eye. Another key to remember when discussing the poem 'Ariel' is she never mentions a horse at all. We the reader have just interpreted this for decades as being a horse ride, a fast-paced movement from point A to point B.

The issue here though is the use of that nasty 'n' word. You said you didn't think she was a racist, neither do I. She has also, in The Bell Jar, had a run in while a colored servant--the Ms. Mucky Muck scene! You know that one, right? Do you also have trouble reading that? Did she 'deliberately mar' the entire novel by including this scene of mental confusion/instability? Plath wrote, and this is the key, which I've said before, but maybe not so clearly, in the 1950's & early 1960's. That understandably 'dates' her work. She is dead too, which means she can't go an edit these words out--and I don't think she would. Most of the early American literature doesn't treat blacks very well. Should those books be taken off the shelf although they are historically & culturally accurate? When you can type in full the word nigger, and read the poem on a tape and send it to me, saying the poem the way it should, is when we can effectively explicate your favorite poem.

Peter Steinberg
Alexandria, Va, USA
Saturday, September 18, 1999

Regarding Ariel and its apparently inflammatory language, I stand with the idea of leaving Plath's words alone--written or spoken. Her use of language can be debated in writng and verbally, but I still don't think it's right to change the language to suit your own values. In other words, Elizabeth, I'm not asking you to censor yourself--Ariel is not your poem. It's Plath's. If you don't like it as it is, don't read it. Or read it as it is, then use it as a springboard to discuss your reaction to it. But the words, as they are, are not yours to choose and discard.

Amy Rea
Chanhassen, USA
Friday, September 17, 1999

I agree with Peter's side of the n-word argument, if there are sides. I believe Plath used of the n-word purely for its poetic effect; when she reads "Ariel," those lines are magnificent -- the way her voice catches on those words, the violence and aggressiveness of both the imagery and her voice.

Darcey
Berkeley, USA
Friday, September 17, 1999

I have to agree with Peter, Amy, and Kim, Elizabeth. Altering someone's writing is censorship, no matter whether it was done with the best of intentions or not. Especially since it is pretty uniformily known just how important words and the different meanings of specific words were to Plath and how she used those to impart a specific meaning in her poetry. If you disagree with the terminology that she uses then you shouldn't read the poem. I don't honestly think that Plath had any idea of the negative connotations that the "N-word" would have in this day and age and back in her day it was commonplace. That doesn't make her a bigot, just like if you read the poem word for word using the "N-word" it doesn't mean you agree with her words or use of them. It just means that you respect poetry as an art form, and Plath as a poet. As a writer, like Amy, I think I would have a *huge* problem with someone substituting words I did not write, as every word has its own denotations and connotations. And "nadir" most definately is very different a word than "nigger."

Deja
USA
Friday, September 17, 1999

Who said it is a bother for me to read "Ariel"? In fact, it is my favorite poem of anyone's. I questioned why the poet used it, after all she was very empathic, and I do remember writing "I don't believe she was a racist."

But why should that particular word SIT WELL with my tastes? Actually, isn't it also used against Indians in Britain, and it marginalizes them. You know what, a lot of people dislike hearing it, and historically have, and were taught to not ever use it. I include myself and my mother. We both grew up in Virginia (a place first settled by English people anxious for their freedom.) I am about the same age as Frieda Hughes. I'm one of those Western- European transplants--white--and the one time I said "n-" I was a little girl; I said it because I KNEW it was "dirty." A (white) neighbor told my parents, next thing, I was getting marched into the house to have my "mouth washed out with soap."

It seems like I'm hearing some stereotyping: Southerners are like this, people who use or don't use certain words are like this--believe this--should do this-- So if anyone else wants to suggest what I read, think, speak, feel: if I am harming someone, Id appreciate your suggestions. Otherwise, would you please go back and re-read my postings? Then maybe we can stick the issues within the poems, and what I'd like is that we explicate this poem and not me.

For example, did you know there is a very VERY beautiful poem by Wallace Stevens called "The Planet on the Table"? From 1953. Its first line is "Ariel was glad he had written his poems." And the sun appears in his poem as well.
Not to mention Eliots "Marina," one of his "Ariel Poems," and its about a journey, and freedom.

Finally, I thought I mentioned why I believe "n-" fits into the context of Ms. Plaths poem. Sure, it's how you take it. But also to whom you say it? Peter, you stated that your friend "wouldn't let you" say "n-" to him. And you didn't. Respect, empathy? For example, my eyes are green and I wouldn't particularly love to hear myself described as "puke-eyed" or "she's the one with the pus-colored eyes."

In closing, I've read "Ariel" in public, and I want to encourage Suzanne, Amy and Peter to each ask to read "Ariel" (as you like it) at your local junior high or high school, library, youth center, church, synagogue....to a group of strangers, maybe African-Americans....and tell us about it. Seriously.

Elizabeth
San Francisco, USA
Friday, September 17, 1999

When I was in high school I once asked an African-American friend of mine (then termed 'black') why it was a 'black' person could called another 'black' person a 'nigger' and why a white person (Euro-American in many cases) couldn't! In a sense, my friend told me "It's all in how you say it, how you take it." I then asked him for an example--he said other blacks say "What's up niggahhhh,' whereas whites tended to pronouce every letter--and that was the difference. (He still wouldn't let me say it!)

Plath's use of the word is quite plainly poetic! Both it's meaning & placement are not degrogatory at all--it is in how you take it though. You as the reader and interpretor of the poem have every right to take it how you want. But, it's obviously not settling well with your tastes--and so I have to ask why you bother to read it? It is a word still used I am sure, sadly, in most of the Southern USofA.

Some people and most animals have black eyes that can easily be described as 'n'-like--some so black it makes a Guinness jealous.

'Ariel' is a beautiful poem the way it is! I would only ever read it the way it was printed on the page, the way the Poet intended! (By the way, the poem was originally published by Alvarez as "The Horse," I believe posthumously & I believe in The Observer--though it could have been London Magazine--both used heavily immediately before and after her suicide.)

Peter Steinberg
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Thursday, September 16, 1999



Thanks, Darcey. Hope to check out the anthology, soon.

Elaine, does the Guardian have a site where we can read the Alvarez excerpt?
(Yes. The link to the Guardian piece is underlined. Or click here)

And Amy, did I imply that "nadir" as an "image of blackness" is "the same in tone and meaning" as "n-"? I think I said that, similar to S.P.'s other "shock" words I listed, similar to her phrase "bastard masturbating a glitter;" in my view, she chose the "n-" word for its power to lend subtext, as well as for its sound et.al. In their poems, all those wild-card words stir deep images in my Unconscious.

In my last paragraph I briefly said why(to me)the "n-word" with its slavery images fits "Ariel." But it's for mature adults.

Re: censorship, as to how one CHOOSES to speak another's words (note: I am NOT saying how they "should" appear in print or other media) well, the poems are out there, they are her gift to us. I don't feel obligated to walk down an aisle with every single one of Ms. Plath's ideas or words.

You seem to advocate that I "censor" MYSELF--my self's-- thoughts, words...or conform? About my idea which you call a "breathtaking use": thanks, I like your phrase, and recommend Zen meditation (zazen) for your breathing. I intend to keep posting!

And finally, yes: I edited Plath's "Ariel" once in public. First I asked who had read the poem. No one said they had. So I said I was going to change a word. And did. I hope the later poetry will gain a widespread audience, and after all, it does have to get by some people's negative image of her attached to how she died.

Elizabeth
San Francisco, USA
Thursday, September 16, 1999

Elizabeth, I completely understand your reluctance to use the word "nigger-eyed" in any context let alone in public - in fact, I find it difficult to write the word now. However, I am a bit troubled with the idea or act of changing a writer's words - for any reason. I suppose that is easy for me to say, and no doubt, if I were in a public place reading the poem - classroom, etc. - I might be inclined to do the same as you and change the word to something less offensive. Still, where do we draw the line? Once we begin to change a writers words - or an artist's work - be s/he a filmmaker, painter, etc. - or a musician's music - we are entering very dangerous territory. I think most people would agree that the 'N-word' is offensive and derogatory and should not be used in any context, as it is an inflammatory word. But what about rap artists who use the word regularly in their work? Many people find nudity in art offensive, for a variety of reasons - hence the booming fig leaf trade of the 19th century. What do you the rest of you think? Is is ok to change a writers words because they are offensive? Or is it better to preface a reading or other presentation of the work with a 'content' warning? Or still, present it and let it stand on its own? In this context, I don't think SP was trying to be controversial - though some writers ARE trying to provoke a strong reaction - do you think this makes any difference in how the words should be presented in public?

Kim
Detroit, USA
Thursday, September 16, 1999

Today's Guardian has an extract from Al Alvarez's autobiography entitled: How black magic killed Sylvia Plath. The blurb for the article says "Ted Hughes' dabbling in the occult enabled his wife to write some of her greatest works. But, says Al Alvarez,ex-poetry editor of the Observer and a friend of the doomed couple, inspiration came at a terrible cost". We have added this book and the one Peter mentions below to the book list.

Elaine Connell
Hebden Bridge, UK
Wednesday, September 15, 1999

Regarding comments on Sylvia's use of the N-word, I have to ask Elizabeth: you read the poem publicly and change the language? As a writer myself, I find that a breathtaking use of material you didn't write. If Plath were alive, maybe she would change it, and maybe not. I don't agree that "nadir" is equal in tone or meaning. Plath was very deliberate in her word choices (the legends of the hours she spent with her thesaurus as testimony) and to arbitrarily remove words you don't like strikes me as censorship -- something I doubt Plath would support.

Amy Rea
Chanhassen, USA
September 15, 1999

Just Published! The Poetry of Sylvia Plath: Icon Critical Guides edited by Claire Brennan. It's a UK student guide to Plath--cover price is 8 quid. I got this from Amazon.co.uk and total with shipping to the US is about $12. The book is 202 pages, paperback. It discusses the critical issues surrounding Plath's poetry--debates, reviews, cultural interpretations & Plath's association with feminininism & feminininists. I'll hopefully get to read it soon!

Peter Steinberg
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Sunday, September 12, 1999



I am reading The Bell Jar for one of my English courses, and today my professor dwelled on the violent Marco scene; he was confused by the symbolism of the diamond. Marco orders Esther in Chapter 9: "I have earned my diamond with this blood. Give it to me." One suggestion: since he gave her his diamond, he now owns her; ordering her a daiquiri without asking her and forcing her to dance ("It doesn't take two to dance, it only takes one") reinforce this. My professor believes Plath is exposing the bleak reality of 1950's marital life: the impotence of wives. But why "earn"? Another suggestion: by degrading Esther in the mud, Marco earns power over her (and steals a chunk of hers), and therefore earns back his diamond. This makes sense, since Marco is a passionate misogynist, "invulnerable and chock-full of power." Why she leaves his blood stains on her cheeks "like the relic of a dead lover" also is a bit puzzling; perhaps it relates to her description of herself as a "sick Indian"?

Touching on that N-word discussion, there is some racism in The Bell Jar: the Negro with the beans episode and her unflattering descriptions of herself as a Chinaman and a sick Indian. Perhaps the Indian remark has to do with a similar sort of alienation from, or even abuse by, America.

And Elizabeth, there is a draft of "Ariel" in the Voices & Visions anthology (ed. Helen Vendler, Random House), as well as a draft of "Stings."

Darcey
Berkeley, USA
Wednesday, September 15, 1999

Suzanne and Peter, thank you for your postings regarding Plaths use of the "n-word" in "Ariel." Peter, I love your phrasing, so much! "...a glass shard in the ear." I felt refreshed.

When I say this poem in public, I use the phrase "Nadir-eyed berries," which fits the sound/syllable/image of blackness thing. Nadir has no shock value.

I believe the "n-word" was considered obscene in Plath's day, as well as earlier. Educated white liberals were loath to apply it to other human beings, or flowers, etc. With her Massachusetts Puritan background, it was probably a shocking word for Sylvia Plath, like these other daring word-choices: "bastard," "tits," "sperm," and "masturbating (a glitter)."

About a politically-correct vocabulary, that's not anything new, and for some people is probably no more than a (white) mask. But I dont believe Plath was a bigot, even in her heart of darkness. Plus, at this stage the poet was about taking the veils down. She had worked hard for the craft to do it. So why this word like a fist? It resonates with the subtext of slavery & bondage---little "doll" families menaced by Patriarchs---poverty---loss of individuality....

Maybe she used the "n-word" to demonstrate the inner--as well as outer--darkness from which the heroine starts her journey. The stasis, darkness, the "sweet blood" could symbolize various kinds of slavery the "I-persona" has been "hooked" on. She had tried to swallow other peoples beliefs. But she moves past them, they become "Shadows." She and Ariel fly toward light.

Elizabeth
San Francisco, USA
Wednesday, September 15, 1999

Plath also sketched and drew from a very young age. There was one particular incident with a pastel drawing which her grandmother smudged. A teacher commented on the resulting poem, I Thought That I Could Not Be Hurt, that it was incredible that one so young could have experienced anything so devastating. According to Aurelia, it is her first poem with tragic undertones.

She made her own paper dolls as a child. I know that she sketched up until her honeymoon in Spain as well as handmade cards. Plath may have sublimated the artistic urge into her writing, intensifying this skill instead.

Ivy Imbuido
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Tuesday, September 14, 1999

And let's not for get that SP herself was brown-eyed. Also, Suzanne, the LAST thing I would expect from her writing would be nice, clean political correctness!

Palo Alto, USA
Monday, September 13, 1999

Sian, I've long thought that many of Plath's poems would yield inspiration for gorgeously surreal paintings: "Tulips", "Lady Lazarus", "The Moon and the Yew Tree", "Mushrooms", and "Edge" to name just a few. I would love to see what different painters would do with Plath's poems.

I also think Plath would've liked seeing this cross-fertilization among artistic modes, since she had an interest in visual art. Did you know that Plath wrote a number of poems with paintings as inspiration? "The Disquieting Muses" was suggested by a de Chirico painting of the same name, and several other poems were inspired by works by Klee and Rousseau. Sylvia dedicated her poem "The Sculptor" to Leonard Baskin (the artist Ted Hughes worked with on Crow, among other works), and she was herself something of an artist in her youth.

Suzanne
USA
Sunday, September 12, 1999

Elizabeth--I believe Plath's use of the N-word in "Ariel" is purely for an adjective purposes--black. It really is a nasty, dated word but sounds much better than "Black eye Casting dark hooks" & so on. And to hear her read this poem, the N word is a glass shard in the ear, but taken in context, is appropriate--close to beautiful.

Peter Steinberg
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Sunday, September 12, 1999



"Why did Sylvia use the "N-word" in "Ariel"? As if she took her perfect poem and deliberately marred it. I do not believe she was a racist!"

The use of the word "nigger" in "Ariel" helps us picture the reflective surface of the dark berries as the dim morning light catches on them. The berries are like dark eyes. They are also important berries, one of a scant handful of objects seen on the speaker's ride that she bothers to name or describe. These berries "cast dark hooks". They are "black sweet blood mouthfuls". But the rider goes past them, an unpeeling "White Godiva", toward another "Eye", a red one. We readers may disagree about exactly what is going on here, but I think we can all agree that Plath was not attempting to mar her poem. (Especially when we consider that she said the poems she was writing that October would make her reputation.)

There may be another reason for Plath to say "Nigger-eye berries" instead of saying "dark berries" or "blackberries" or "black-eyed berries". Is it possible that Plath knew the berries by that name? I am only speculating here, but it is a fact that a couple of generations ago, there were plants known by colloquial names incorporating the word "nigger"; as only one example, the flower known by some as "Black-eyed Susan" was known by others as "nigger navel". While nice people did not use "nigger" to refer to people, they might sometimes use it to refer to objects or in the to us lamentably vulgar expressions such as "a nigger in the woodpile"; the taboo against the word had not yet grown so strong that noone could utter it without being tainted by its power and so had to resort to the euphemism "the N-word".

I do not know much about Sylvia's views on race, as I can not recall seeing it addressed by her. (Although there was that unfortunate comment in the early Journal about all blacks looking the same until one gets to know them personally.) She might use words that we now consider offensive (such as "Negress" and "Chinaman"), but that might just be the common usage of the day, something she meant nothing by. But even if there were latent rascism in her terminology, perhaps we should not be too hard on her. As she was a woman of her day in so many other ways, it may be that she was a woman of her day when it came to racial attitudes as well. How many of us transcend the common prejudices of our day? It may be too much to expect people of past generations--even extraordinary individuals such as Plath--to meet all of our current expectations for correct behavior.

Suzanne
USA
Sunday, September 12, 1999

Hello; for the students, I hope this helps.

Sian, if I could paint, I'd paint "The Moon and the Yew Tree." Also a grouping of images from "Stings": the large queen bee in the center, flying "over the mausoleum, the wax house", which would resemble both a hive and Court Green. She would have Sylvia's face and hair and look angry and triumphant, with glaring eyes. The moon scouring the sea, the blue dew from dangerous skin, etc. could each be painted in the corners. The bees all over Ted's face.

For Claire: I have not read THE BELL JAR in years, but as with some of Sylvia's poems I had to laugh. Check out Esther re: Lenny--from the cab stopped in traffic, through Doreen and her roots lying outside Esther's door. The, shall I say, Thanksgiving description of Buddy. Es at the beach with some boy, trying to finagle his father's gun; her dry remark when she learned it was a wash. Jay Cee's appearance, the Willards (the Dullards). The humor to me makes Esther more poignant.

In Emma Tennant's article on her affair with Hughes (is this really true? She seems full of it!), she says "The Beekeeper" (huh?) is a "happy" poem?! And describes Sylvia and Ted in terms of stereotypes--or cartoons. Hughes a ham and a poser, a self-styled martyr milking it for all it was worth. She writes as if she despised him from Day 1. Must have gotten the old heave-ho! Finally, a question. Somebody please let me know what you think....Why did Sylvia use the "N-word" in "Ariel"? As if she took her perfect poem and deliberately marred it. I do not believe she was a racist!

Was this poem published during her lifetime, and if so, was this word in it? Or did all of this appear later? Has Alvarez ever said what happened to the hand-written-and "illuminated" copy she gave him?

Thanks for your enjoyable postings.

Elizabeth
San Francisco, USA
Friday, September 10, 1999

Victoria Lucas, Plath's pseudonym for The Bell Jar, is explained by Anna Stevenson (Bitter Fame). She writes, It was a name drawn from Ted's world; Victoruia after his favorite Yorkshire cousin, Victoria (Vicky) Farrar, and Lucas after his friend Lucas Myers. (p.227)

Ivy Imbuido
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Friday, September 10, 1999

I don't know if Plath was an alcoholic, a diabetic or even bipolar. She may have been fond of the bottle and used liquor as a crutch at times, such as when she was at Cambridge or much later when she was missing Hughes (isn't there a quote about brandy and water and music?) But she was no Dylan Thomas! I had no idea she'd gotten so drunk she had blackouts, but then maybe these experiences put her off any future nights on the town. The only thing I know about diabetes and drinking (which I learned from a movie!) is that they don't go together and the person tends to pass out after a while.

Plath's problems at the end of her life were profound, everything aggravating everything else. Her emotional, physical and psychic states were all fragile, and then there was the practical problems of childcare, getting a phone installed, and resuming her previous existence as a woman writer about town. If her problem was merely the cold weather, I think she would have been able to see it through with the stoicism she so admired, a nanny and so on. She may have been wealthy by some standards, and I'm sure she knew she was lucky if not magically blessed by Yeats to live where she did. But this, sadly, was not enough.

Lena Friesen
Toronto, Canada
Thursday, September 9, 1999

Blame it on the bossa nova.

Stewart Clarke
NYC, USA
Wednesday, September 8, 1999

Perhaps Sylvia Plath was diabetic, addicted to alcohol, suffering of depression, mad, etc : but the question remains : how can you define the relation betwen being a poet and being, let us say, not quite "normal" (ill, unhappy...) ? Or, to put it in a simplistic way : was she a poet "because" , or although she was not quite "normal" ? Maybe there is no answer, and it's an absurd question.

Anyway, being diabetic, or adicted to alcohol, or suffering of depression etc does not mean, alas, that one is a poet : a poet is, maybe, somebody who is not quite "normal", but not everybody who is not quite "normal" is a poet. I mean, one should be prudent before identifying oneself with Sylvia Plath...

Sory for my English, which is not so good.

Michel Kappes
Brest, France
September 8, 1999

In response to Carol Petrone's posting, I find the alcoholism idea an intriguing one. I hadn't thought of it, but the many references to alcohol are certainly there.

I wonder also if there weren't a good many factors in Sylvia's emotional state. The disease of alcoholism certainly would come into play, if that was the case; combined with diabetes, it would be even worse; even the "smaller" problems that popped up frequently in her letters and journals could be debilitating. She certainly had a terrible time with her monthly menstruation, and we know now that PMS can have horrific side effects. Even the chronic sinusitus that she often suffered can have an impact on emotional states. I write this as I'm in the midst of a sinus infection myself, a frequent state for me, and it's physically draining as well as mood-altering. Lucky for me, there are medications that are much better now than 30 years ago, but even now there's nothing that magically takes away all the symptoms.

If, and it's a big if, Sylvia was diabetic, addicted to alcohol, suffering extreme PMS and knocked down by debilitating sinus -- that's a huge load to carry without even factoring in a history of mental illness. It does raise the sad question of what more advanced medical care could have done in helping Sylvia face the variety of demons at her door.

Amy Rea
Chanhassen, USA
Wednesday, September 8, 1999

For those of you interested (and who may not already know), the unedited journals of Sylvia's which have been long talked about being published are available for pre-ordering at www.amazon.co.uk

The date (which I have heard was confirmed by someone who actually called Faber and Faber) is set for June 1, 2000 and at the amazon site the price is set at (if I remember correctly) around 35 pounds (hardback). I have looked, and so far have yet to see it on any other bookstore site. I also believe it is only being published (initially) in the UK. So far there I have not heard of whether or not this edition will include the much-discussed "missing" diaries of the last few years of her life that Ted Hughes supposedly either hid or "destroyed."

Deja Gworek
USA
Sunday, September 5, 1999

I’ve just read the article by Emma Tennant in the “Sunday Times” which Peter has referred to and found it cast some light on Plath’s supposedly unfounded sexual jealousy throughout their marriage. According to Tennant, he was conducting several affairs during the 1970’s whilst being seemingly happily married to his second wife Carol.

The whole piece suggests that Hughes was a serial adulterer and makes one wonder if Plath’s apparently groundless suspicions of his philandering (as cited in Stevenson’s biography for example) were in fact grounded in reality. For anyone who’s interested click here for the “Sunday Times” article.

Elaine Connell
Hebden Bridge, UK
Sunday, September 5, 1999

After reading the very intelligent and thoughtful responses to my comment on madness and the artistic temperament, I feel the need to explain one of my statements which has caused some confusion. I will also propose another theory, which may create some discussion.

First, I suggested that we readers of Plath "resist the urge to explain-away her suicide by reason of her depression." Yes, depression is a mood affective disorder whose symptoms range from extreme sadness, lack of motivation, and inability to concentrate, to the neglect of personal hygiene and change in appetite (either increased or decreased.) Yes, Sylvia had many of these symptoms -- although her creativity seemed to have dominated her depression, since in the depths of her dispair she produced her most prolific and talented work, "Ariel." And yes, suicide is often the result of a long period of black and hopeless depression, when the victim feels that death is the only solution to the ongoing despair. However, we must resist the urge to make any kind of arbitrary and unilateral judgments of Plath's death, simply because we don't know the full story. Plath's husband knew she was depressed, Plath's mother knew she was depressed, Plath's friends knew she was depressed, therefore . . . she must have killed herself because she was depressed. No. Suicide is often the result of many other psychological -- as well as physical -- disorders. And as Elaine Connell suggests in her thought provoking posting, there may have been physical factors (such as undiagnosed diabetes) that contributed to her mood. We just don't know. We don't have the diagnostic data, and we don't have a suicide note. So we are left to conjecture our own hypotheses.

Second, I would like add a little pepper to the already bubbling cauldron. Has anyone considered the possibility that Plath was an alcoholic? I suggest she may have been, based on my readings of her "diaries" at the Lilly Library. There are weekly (if not more frequent) entries detailing her drinking: "countless sherries. . . " "endless vodka. . ." "too much wine with dinner. . ." Further, her 1956 diaries describe at least two occasions where she drank to blackout, with Ted nursing her through a terrible hangover the following day. We all know that Plath's behavior on her first meeting Hughes was fueled by alcohol. And we know that she frequently had martinis with Anne Sexton and Robert Lowell. NOW THEN -- I don't want any angry comments back at me stating what a judgmental and intolerant idiot I must be. Remember the fact, first and foremost, that alcoholism is a disease -- not a lapse in morality. Consider the well-documented litany of alcoholic writers in the twentieth century: Hemingway, Faulkner, Fitzgerald, Dorothy Parker, Sexton and Lowell, and others. Alcoholism is a torturing disease that can lead to depression, severe medical complications (Faulkner), and even suicide (Hemingway and Sexton). Is it possible that Plath may have suffered from this condition? Does anyone have any other documentation of Plath's drinking (from her own writings or from others' recollections of her)? Was alcohol responsible for her depression? Did it also fuel her creativity? I shall put on my bullet-proof vest and await your responses.

Carol Petrone
Southfield, MI, USA
Sunday, September 5, 1999

There is a cheeky article in The Sunday Times of London (5 Sept 99) on Ted Hughes by Emma Tennant!

Peter Steinberg
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Sunday, September 5, 1999



When I first read Plath's Ariel over thirty years ago my first reaction was one of recognition. Her mental state was akin to mine. And over the years, reading avidly on Plath, my opinion hasnt really changed. You have to look at the schizophrenics, not the manic-depressives (I have read Kay REdfield Jameson's first book on herself). It is this distancing of the ego from the life-circumstances around them and the cool cold quality of the viewing that exemplifies this sort of work. I thought Al Alvarex caught it very well in his picture of Plath in his book on Suicide. But the shrewdest observer still seems to be David Holbrook in his psychoanalytic book. I have never seen anybody else get to the guts of PLath in quite the same way.

When she wrote the Ariel poems she was in a paranoid Schizophrenic state living in another world. Fortunately she was a great poet so she was able to record it. I find it debatable whether in the long run her poetry will be no more than a blip on the landscape. There are very few mad people to understand what they did. But a voice murmurs to me Cowper. Her flaw is lack of construct in her lines. The rhythms just spouted out of her. I think Lowell's Life Studies a supremer piece of art. But the thing to say is that bipolarity (a horrible American word) is a small part of PLath. What she was was schizoid/schizophrenic/paranoid schizophrenic in varying quantities.

While I am thinking about Plath I should say that I think failed empathy with the mother is the likeliest reason for her problems, combined with the hereditary factors. ECT seems barbaric to me for someone with such problems. When I was first encountering these problems in the 60s I wrote a singsong poem `Review'from which I will quote:

We really should never been born
We give you your moments of magic and mirth
And love you in spite of the scorn
Separate in ourselves
We love all the world
And hate it for what it has done
But the art that is bad
Is to break down and howl
Revenging for what was torn
29 October 1967

The scorn goes both ways and the separateness is caused by separation from the mother caused by lack of empathy.

I think in `Daddy' and `Lady Lazarus' you do see Sylvia's art breaking down making them flawed poems. But they are still works of genius. I was never impressed with `The Colossus' to the degree that I was with `Ariel'. And dont really feel that the `Collected Poems' has added much.

What we see is that to produce her best work Sylvia had to be close to the edge. I think she was aware of this and when she came out of the madness of the `Arial' poems may not have wanted to repeat the trip. A factor jogging on her suicide.

And regarding the very cold winter of 62/3 I should say that Ted Hughes and Sylvia PLath were very wealthy by normal standards for those days and there was never any possibility that she might freeze to death. I was a student then so I should know.

Douglas Clark
Bath, England
Sunday, September 5, 1999

I have been greatly inspired by Sylvia Plath after reading The Bell Jar for the first time. I have struggled with depression all my life, and have attempted and contemplated suicide since the age of seven. I could taste the pain Sylvia felt at such a young age. It was a pain I knew so well. I think many people read The Bell Jar and become fascinated with Sylvia because of morbid curiosity. It is hard to believe that someone so young and talented could throw everything away, but when you are in the depths of depression, it is hard to think clearly or to see beyond your pain. People can try to explain this pain away and offer other reasons as to why she may have fely compelled to committ suicide, but I feel that people often underestimate the power of depression, and the havoc it can wreak on one's life. I am filled with regret that such a brave and beautiful soul as Sylvia cannot be here with us today, but the legacy she has left behind I am sure has helped so many that feel the same pain she did. I feel as if I knew her, even though she died before I was even born. That is the power of Sylvia and her words. They reach out to you and hold on to you. I hope others can learn from her works and her life, cause she is a brilliant woman who should be celebrated for all time to come

Anne Bolen
Portland, USA
Sunday, September 5, 1999

Sylvia Plath's poetry is a dynamic force in my life. Her style, diction, and feeling inspires my self and my poetry. I discovered her in my ninth grade year when a class conversation fiercely turned to suicide and my English teacher said something about how a female poet killed herself in a rather odd fashion: by putting her head in an oven and turning on the gas. Her death was so odd to me at the time, I asked if we could read some of her work. It threw me. From that day forth I have been an avid Plath fan and have been reading her works habitually. If anyone else out there feels the same, feel free to email me. I'd really like to learn all I can about this amazing poet, writer, and woman.

Sarah Hershey
Greenwood, USA
Sunday, September 5, 1999

Elaine, I think that you have a good point there. Sylvia did exhibit symptoms, or at least what could be seen as symptoms, of diabetes. My family also has a history of it, though I've never experienced it myself. On second thought, she also exhibited symptoms of OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) too I think, which is known to be often be linked with depression. The fact that she was so meticulous and got very angry if something was even slightly out of place or not done the way she wanted it. I have an immediate family member that has OCD and I can't help but see similarities between her behaviour and Sylvia's. Most likely she probably had a combination of many different things though, which is why it is so hard to "diagnose" so many years after the fact.

Deja Gworek
USA
Sunday, September 5, 1999

I’ve found the recent contributions as to what might have been wrong with Sylvia Plath interesting especially as I’ve also been thinking that maybe some medical conditon may have been responsible for her erratic behaviour.

My own idea is that perhaps she was suffering from undiagnosed diabetes. As a diabetic myself and a member of a family with a long history of the disease I recognise many of the symptoms in Sylvia.

Her large weight loss whilst she was eating substantial meals is the biggest physical clue. But much of her behaviour could also be attributed to a diabetic’s fluctuating blood sugar levels. Irrational conduct is a common pattern during states of hypoglycaemia and a sense of overpowering rage is a side effect of hyperglycaemia. Diabetes is also quite hard to detect when it develops in maturity rather than youth. Even today one can have to wait until quite noticeable symptoms appear (such as eyesight being affected) before it’s diagnosed. And perhaps in the ‘60s less was known about its genetic component than is known today. I know from both my own and some other diabetics’ experiences that it took a long time for us to get diagnosed and 36 years ago it might have been even more difficult. I’d be interested to hear other people’s opinions.

Elaine Connell
Hebden Bridge, UK
Saturday, September 4, 1999

Regarding Melissa's comment, I agree with her except for one point, which I do think is worth mentioning. I think it is important to differentiate that Sylvia's mental/emotional problems were not due specifically to manic depression. In fact most people who study SP find that they can't really give a name to whatever mental illness she had. If anything most scholars (or at least the ones I have read) have all agreed that the closest diagnosis they can come to for her behaviour would probably be borderline personality disorder (BPD), which is quite different from manic depression. I don't necessarily agree with that though, as I think there are some key elements to BPD that Sylvia never really exhibited, but that is what I've read. Her mental state, as bad as it may have been, most certainly did contribute to her writing though, as with many brilliant artists. There are a number of books out on the market studying this phenomenon too for anyone interested.

Deja Gworek
USA
Saturday, September 4, 1999

As an English major, amateur poet, and an avid reader of Sylvia's work I have decided to name the daughter I am expecting in February Sylvia Ariel. Has anyone else named there children after sylvia or ted?

Amanda Addison
Clermont, USA
Saturday, September 4, 1999

"While resisting the urge to explain-away Plath's suicide by reason of her depression..."

I'm not sure I understand. Are you suggesting there was a motive other than depression for Plath's suicide? I know people do sometimes commit suicide for other reasons, such as monks making a political statement or soldiers trying to avoid capture by the enemy. But I'd always assumed Plath committed suicide because she was severely depressed. I know from my own personal experience with depression that suicidal urges arise then, even if they are absent or weak at other times; the deeper the depression, the more compelling the thoughts of suicide.

Suzanne
USA
Saturday, September 4, 1999

In response to Carol Petrone's comments on madness and the artistic temperament: this is a fascinating issue which has generated debates among clinicians and artists alike---especially when considering treatments for disorders such as bipolar disease. Kay Jamison has offered a compelling argument that manic-depressive illness is more pronounced in the artistic population; therefore, one must consider to what extent the illness influences their work, and whether or not treatment will necessitate an ebb of output or intensity. I have ambivalent feelings about the issue myself. One hesitates to assign an artist's achievements to a disease and accident of birth as if hard work and effort had nothing to do with creative excellence. And yet, the Mania and Ordeal, the extraordinary range and plummet of emotional experience characteristic of such disorders often grant their victims a kind of "slant sight" into the human condition---a uniqueness of perspective, a frantic drive of ability, an intensity of expression---that touch of abyss and riot so vividly seen in Sylvia's late work. I say this with a degree of reservation, not wishing to glamorize an illness with such destructive capacity, nor wishing to perpetuate the black pajama-clad, "tortured artist" stereotype. There are many "normal" artists out there who are basically happy and productive also. Carol states that she does not wish to explain away Sylvia's suicide by way of depression, and yet I see no real way around that. Certainly personal disasters and outward circumstances of weather, illness, etc. were forces for psychic erosion, but as Amelia Barr states " No one was ever ruined from without; the final ruin comes from within."

I am inclined to think that Sylvia knew she was courting a demon when she wrote the Ariel poems, and she was willing to take that risk for the sake of her art. I often wonder how her work might have evolved had she lived as long as Ted Hughes, or even Anne Sexton, or had she received appropriate medical care. I claim no expertise here; I am a willing listener for other arguments.

Melissa Carl
York, USA
Thursday, September 2, 1999

To Lori of New Brunswick: Thank you for pointing out to all of us Plathians that there may have been an honest-to-gosh diagnosis for what ailed Sylvia. "Bipolar" disease, or manic-depression, is being recognized now as a creative source for so many artistic musings. In Kay Redfield Jamison's excellent book, "Touched With Fire," she explains that the unspeakable and torturing madness of bipolar disease has given voice to poetry, prose, music and art throughout history. Lord Byron, perhaps the most famous of all artistic bipolars, remarked, "We of the craft are all crazy." Perhaps this explains the prolificity of the artistic "temperament."

Jamison cites (and gives evidence for) many bipolar writers, in addition to Plath. F. Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, Robert Burns, Edgar Allen Poe, Virginia Woolf, Theodore Roethke were all sufferers. Interestingly, many of Plath's contemporaries (and friends) were also victims of the disease: Anne Sexton, Robert Lowell and Randall Jarrell, to name a few. Sadly, many bipolar artists also committed suicide, and Jamison supports this statement with staggering statistics and references.

Perhaps readers of this Forum could comment on on their views madness and the artistic temperament. While resisting the urge to explain-away Plath's suicide by reason of her depression, we could perhaps posit our own ideas as to how art and madness are so closely tied.

Carol Petrone
Southfield, MI, USA
Sunday, August 29, 1999

Sian; Start with the wrong end of the telescope; then fall though it. The results may surprise you, but will never be boring.

And remember, "My glass of water refracts the morning."

If you can do Escher in full color, this is the job for you. Only don't be quite so sterile... hope this helps.

Kenneth Jones
San Francisco, USA
Sunday, August 29, 1999

I was wondering if anyone could help me -- at some point I remember reading that towards the end of her life, Plath was becoming interested in the Victorian era and in the writers of that time. Does anyone remember or know where this is? I have always been struck by her use of the name "Victoria" as well as the "last of Victoriana" line.

I am glad to see new folks here and I promise to get more involved once my computer is fixed! Oh, and before I go -- has anyone ever seen Gordon Lamayer's book that he mentions in his memoir "Sylvia at Smith"? Is this at the Lilly Library in Indiana?

Lena Friesen
Toronto, Canada
Sunday, August 29, 1999

I am a year 11 student and for literarture we are studying Sylvia Plath's life and poetry . For a work requirement, we can choose some aspect of Plath's life or poetry and write an extended response. I am having trouble choosing a topic. I would be grateful if anyone could suggest some possible ideas for a response topic.

Milly
Melbourne, Australia
Sunday, August 29, 1999

I'm an illustration student currently doing research on Plath for a project in which I must illustrate her world. Does anyone have any inspiring ideas?

Also does anyone have any thoughts on "Tale of a Tub". I read it recently and thought it was absolutely amazing..........

'in faith we shall board our imagined ship and wildly sail among sacred islands of the mad till death shatters the fabulous stars and makes us real.'

Sian
Warrington, England
Friday, August 27, 1999

I heard about the bell jar the summer before my freshman year, so I read it to see what it was like. Now, four years later, I'm completey obsessed with her and her work. my copy of the bell jar is worn and tattered from the abuse I've put it through, and the first time I read Lady Lazarus i loved it so much i committed it to memory. Right now i've been going through s.p. sites looking for something i could use for my senior quote. nothing else hits me quite like her use of metephors. . . her wording is the perfect blend of sarcasm, despair and confidence and I just wish there was more of it for me to obsess over.

Stephanie
Savannah, USA
Friday, August 27, 1999

I recently started reading various biographies as well as Plath's own works and I am hooked. As a professional psychologist and amateur poet, I am fascinated!!!! I have read some of the comments and would like to reply: Yes, it was likely very difficult to live with Ms. Plath. From what I can gather, she likely had "bipolar disorder" or more commonly known as manic depressive illness. Today she would be treated with a combination of medications and psychotherapy, rather than the seemingly barbaric description of the ECT she endured. (ECT is still used today, in a limited number of facilities, with some success; primariy in the treatment of "unipolar depression")

I was terribly upset by the descriptions of her behavior as "bad" or "spiteful." She was "sick" but by no means intentionally bad. The symptoms of her illness likely allowed her to produce the incredibly wonderful body of works she did. Many well known artists throughout history likely had bipolar disorder and their creativity was highly dependent on the illness. I appreciate the existence of this forum and look forward to reading the contributions of other fans...

Lori
New Brunswick NJ, USA
Wednesday, August 25, 1999

Hi I am at the moment studying The Bell Jar for A-level English. I am at the moment writting an essay, which I am having great difficulties with. The title is "DESPITE ITS SERIOUS SUBJECT MATTER THE BELL JAR CAN BE SEEN AS A COMICAL NOVEL-DISCUSS" The reason I am finding this so difficult is because I find it hard to consider the morbid, synical and desperatly deppressed life of Plath as being comical. I did relate to the misery, pain and anguish experienced by Plath and find it difficult to make light of such heavy issues. WOULD SOMEBODY OUT THERE PLEASE HELP ME I AM REALLY STRUGGLING!!!!!!!

Claire Putt
Oxford, England
Wednesday, August 25, 1999

Ruby, You may be interested in visiting this site which I've found. It's about a play which fictionalises aspects of Plath and Hughes' life as well as those of Lowell and Sexton's. It was performed in the middle of last year, according to the site: http://www.wilmatheater.org/productions/1998_savages.html . Quite intriguing, from the sound of things.

Ivy Imbuido
Hobart Tasmania, Australia
Monday, August 23, 1999

I am very confused after reading the Bell Jar. Can someone explain Sylvia's purpose and audience....it just didn't make sense to me. Please reply soon.

Rachel
Roswell, USA
Monday, August 23, 1999

rachel Wow! It's nice to finally read the views of like minded Sylvia Plath fans ( thats not the word i'm thinking of...) I can remember reading the bell jar just over two years ago and thinking how amazing it was...as cliched as it sounds i can totally relate to it...but its only in the last few months that i become a dedicated reader of her work ( quick shout to Miss Roberts, Miss Robertson and Miss Minshaw for channeling their love of Sylvia into their inspirational Plath lessons - i'll work this year i promise !!! )I also recently read "Mad Girls Love Song" and i am absolutely in love with it - i read it to everyone i meet. I also do not blame Ted Hughes for anything, i'm the first to admit that the affair and resulting breakup did not help, but can you imagine how hard it must have been to live with someone like Plath ? I think that people do not try to place themselves in Teds shoes, and are too quick to condemn something they are not really familiar with.

Chellina Allen
London, England
Monday, August 23, 1999

I saw a poem by Erica Jong on the "inspired by" page and I was wondering if our intimate little population is farmiliar with Diane Wakoski's poem "The Water Element Song for Sylvia". If you haven't read it it is contained in the book of her poetry entitled The Collected Greed: Parts 1-13, the said poem is on page 109, part nine. Diane Wakoski really gets me reved as a writer, so browse through the rest of the book as well, if you can find it. Bonne chance!

I was actually just discussing this with my mum today...I was wondering if anyone knows of any plays (or films) that have been written about Sylvia's life as a whole or and aspect or period of it. Sylvia Plath has been my favorite poet and a captivating persona in my life since I was thirteen. I read anything I can get on her, so I would love to be informed of additional texts existing and, (the truth comes out) I admit that while I am an English major, I am also a Theatre minor and can think of few women I would more like to play than Ms. Plath. I suppose if thare aren't any, I'll have to get started on writing one, any ideas, suggestions or possible collaboartors? Has anyone tried this before who wishes to warn me off the project?

Ruby Des Jardins
St. Croix, USA
Saturday, August 21, 1999

Hello I'd like to make contact with anyone also interested in the work of Sylvia. I'm relatively new to her work (about 2 years reading) and I also write my own poetry too. I think the theory is correct about young people having a special attraction to her work, me being 19 myself. Anyway, I'd just like some intelligent conversation! Regards

Patrick Wright
Manchester, England
Wednesday, August 18, 1999

In response to Amber, and others who might be interested, here is the Sylvia Plath concordance: Matovich, Richard M., A CONCORDANCE TO THE COLLECTED POEMS OF SYLVIA PLATH (New York: Garland Publishing Co., 1986).

I've found this book very useful for locating and checking the frequency of certain words. The word "eye" for example, occurs 88 times, and good old Dick the ferret gives you the locations. Of highest frequency among words with any semantic significance is "white" (166 times).

The only problem here is the difficulty of locating a copy of the book. Garland is not exactly a mainstream publisher. The best place to look would be a university library.

Jack Folsom
Sharon, Vermont, USA

Could anyone tell me about a few books that are out? I'm wondering about a Concordance to the Collected Poems, and The Fading Smile by Peter Davison. I want to know if Davison's portrait of Sylvia is in any other anthology of writings about her. What about David Holbrook's Poetry and Existence? Is that a worthwhile book?

Thank you, 14th August 1999

Amber
Norcross, USA

Though I have read Plath for many years and taught her poetry to many secondary school students, I had no idea until I found this website that so many people share my addiction. Plath's poetry seems to have a powerful effect on young people in particular. I shall come back to this site to see if any of my current class have found it, so QEGS A-level students, leave a message!

Judith Hedley
Spilsby, UK
13th August 1999

Does anyone know how to contact the Plath Estate, concerning academic research on unpublished works, letters and journals? Much thanks if you can help!

Joyce
Christchurch, New Zealand
10th August 1999

I have uploaded seven photographs taken by John Hopkins of North Tawton & Court Green. They can be found in my Plath webpage photo album, the link is on this Forum's Links page! Enjoy. Also, another recent addition is Otto Plath's signature(his ottograph!)from his book, Bumblebees & Their Ways.

Peter Steinberg
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
10th August 1999



This website is truly fantastic; you must excuse my inane comment, but...

ELISABETH
Los Angeles, USA
9th August 1999

Hi there!
I came by this site on accident, and is amazed at the extensive coverage of details, so hopefully, a kind soul (or souls!) will shed a light on my questions......
1. About the new book of Plath's unpublished journals - will they be out of the later periods of her life which Hughes claimed to have destroyed?
2. Does anybody know how I can contact the Plath Estate? I need their permission for access to unpublished materials. Experience with acquiring success rate will be much appreciated.

Joyce Wu
Christchurch, New Zealand
7th August 1999

Most biographies and commentaries about Sylvia Plath attest to the severe weather conditions of the Winter of 1962/63, and how they contributed to her depression and consequent death. While I am hardly in a position to dispute this, or minimise the effect of those conditions had on Plath, I nevertheless wonder if too much emphasis is laid at this particular door. It is of course natural to look for some explanation for the inexplicable. However, "Snow Blitz" suggests that as with so much else Plath used the experience and wrote a beautiful piece in which she faced these conditions most stoically, and with humour, though the last sentence now has an unavoidable poignancy. She had come through these conditions, bad as they were, and was looking back at them with equanimity. This must have been written shortly before her death - I don't suppose anyone knows if it was before or after her last poems - and bears no trace of that depression or mental state that she seems to have lapsed into as related in Hayman's "The Death and Life of Sylvia Plath".

There are so many assumptions relating to Plath's life and death that have become accepted without question. Should we perhaps go back to basics and question everything, we might well come to the same conclusion, but perhaps, just perhaps, some pieces of the jigsaw have been put in the wrong place.

In the 1976 introduction to "Johnny Panic and the Bible of Dreams" Ted Hughes refers to `five of her best pieces of journalism', along with Snow Blitz the other four were America!America!, A Comparison, Context,and Ocean 1212-W.

This aspect of Plath's writing is, I feel, particularly underrated and neglected. These pieces were written in the last year of her life and have a fluidity and natural style that I feel is absent in much of her prose, and indicates a direction in which I am sure she would have found a steady source of financial security, as well as establishing herself as a writer and broadcaster, creating a climate in which her poetry would have been more readily acknowledged and accepted during her lifetime, and had she lived. One can only think of the radio broadcasts and poetry readings of Dylan Thomas to ponder the immeasurable loss to this medium by Plath's death.

John Hopkins
Bridgend, S.Wales, U.K.
9th August 1999

A friend told me that a film (cartoon) adaptation of Ted Hughes' "The Iron Giant" is coming out soon. Is this true? Any info?

Darcey
Berkeley, USA
6th August 1999

I read Sylvia's Journals, her "Letter Home" and Anne Stevenson's biography as well as Hughes' Birthday Letters. At the moment I am reading the Bell Jar and would like to correspond with other people who share my interest in Sylvia's work and life. Do you think that her suicide was an essential contribution that she finally became an eternal poet ?

Sophia Leva
Munich, Germany
5th August

I am eager to know whether Frieda Hughes is going to do any poetry readings or speaking in the New England area. I know that she was going to do a poetry reading at Smith College in November of last year, but when Ted passed away she obviously had to cancel, and I haven't heard anything about her reschedualing.

Rosa
Boston, USA
Sunday, August 1, 1999

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This forum is administered by Elaine Connell, author of Sylvia Plath: Killing The Angel In The House - second edition with new preface just out, December 1998. Elaine lives in Hebden Bridge, near where Sylvia Plath is buried and where Ted Hughes was born. Web Design by Pennine Pens. This forum is moderated - contributions which are inappropriate, anonymous or likely to offend may be edited or omitted.